Each DAY at 11:00 am. ct (GMT – 5) we will post a different SMR snake being offered at a special price.
All snakes will be chosen for their rarity and/or unique beauty.
FREE SHIPPING for each Snake-of-the-Day.
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toDAY’s SNAKE of the DAY (Sun. 21, 2012)
The U.S. Dollar bill in the picture is for size and color comparison. Every computer monitor renders different colors so we put this slightly used dollar bill in the picture so you can hold one next to your computer to assess the color of the snake.
This snake is in good health (not under or over-weight, no parasites or diseases that we are aware, no injuries or defects, and routinely feeding on unaltered frozen/thawed mice).
If we have noticed that the snake listed has any temperament or behavioral issues other than human-friendly, it will be detailed in Comments above.
To purchase this snake, click on the Buy this icon. You will be launched to our shopping cart to submit your payment information and choose which TuesDAY or ThursDAY you prefer delivery.
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Tessera Het Sunkissed
Female
d.o.h. 2011
27″ long on October 21, 2012
$500.00 shipped
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Tessera (no aka)
Most Commonly Used Name: Tessera
Mode of Genetic Inheritance: Dominant
Morph Type: Single Dominant Mutation
Eye Color: Black pupil & body ground colored iris
FIRST, what makes Tesseras so expensive? Other than appearance, the primary (and inherent) value of Tessera-type Corns is their mode of inheritance. Since they are dominant to wild type, pairing any Ultra Type that is a Visual Het to ANY corn snake (other than a Tessera-type) will render 50% Tessera mutants in the F1 (first) out-crossed generation. The results of pairing an Tessera homozygote with ANY corn snake (other than a Tessera-type) will render 100% Tessera mutants.
In 2007, Graham Criglow asked KJ Lodrigue to order a 1.2 trio of Striped Motleys that were advertised on one of the popular Online Classified sites – since Graham’s job prevented him from personally receiving them at that time. When they arrived, KJ discovered that they constituted a 2.1 reverse trio (two males and one female) instead of the advertised 1.2 trio (one male and two females). KJ and Kasi recommended that Graham gift the extra male to me, and that’s what Graham did. Profound thanks to Graham, KJ, and Kasi for that gracious and fortuitous gift. In 2008, both the Lodrigues and I independently bred our males (Graham’s and mine) to novel (unrelated) corns. I produced about 24 TESSERAS (so named by the Lodrigues for the tessellated lateral markings) from over 50 fertile eggs, but since the Lodrigues were in the middle of a career move to another State, they were less fortunate, producing just four non-mutant Okeetee-looking corns. My Tesseras were produced by the pairing of the male Tessera to three novel female corns (two F1 Locality Okeetees from Chip Bridges Rhett Butler Line and one Okeetee-ish female, Het for Stripe and Amel). Imagine my surprise in seeing what we thought were nearly flawless Striped Motleys from three different females, only one of which was Het for a recessive pattern mutation? After the first brood of 50% Tesseras hatched from the female that was het for Stripe and Amel, except for the perfection of pattern, I was not thinking new dominant mutation, but when both wild-type Okeetees produced the same results, it was obvious that a new mutation was discovered.
Upon receiving the reverse trio from the seller, we all commented on the mutual peculiarity of the phenotypes. Most appeared to be the most perfectly Striped Motleys ever seen – in so much as their dorsal stripes were nearly contiguous from neck to tail tip (something never before seen in any corn snake pattern mutant) – but that was hardly possible if the admission of the breeder were true – that they were products of pairing a Striped corn with an Okeetee corn. How could these descendants of a Striped corn bred to an Okeetee be Motley types, instead of Striped? It is still unclear if those 2.1 Tesseras were F1s (first familial generation) or F2s (the originator of this line is now out of the hobby and difficult to reach – for clarification). If these three Tesseras are F1s, my deduction is that the striped corn he used in the original pairing was actually Striped AND Tessera. Even if those three were F2s, the likelihood of the mutant patriarch being a Striped Tessera is strong.
What to expect:
At this early period in the Tessera’s resume, we still don’t know what phenotypic potentials exist. So far, the only behavior that is atypical for a corn snake mutation is that many of the non-mutant siblings of Tessera types seem to have enhanced pattern and color features. So far, I don’t see any hybrid markers, since the collateral sibling features to which I refer are – so far – in the realm of improving existing corn snake features (i.e. some non-Tesseras have better, brighter, cleaner, and/or more consistent colors and markings).
In the 100+ Tessera mutants produced by me as of Fall, 2010, I’m seeing the following features:
The most obvious advantage of having Tesseras in your breeding inventory (aside from their inherent beauty) is that because the mutation is dominantly inherited, 50% of every brood of corns from them will be Tessera mutants. With most other corn snake mutations, one must raise all the Het F1 progeny, and won’t receive any mutants until F2 reproduction (a task that can take four to six years). In the course of adding Tessera to the myriad current patterns and colors of corns, an entirely new market is now in the making.
Predominantly contiguous dorsal striping is the most unique feature of most Tesseras. Even when the stripe is broken, it resumes immediately thereafter (unlike Striped and Motley mutants whose dorsal striping never resumes with any degree of renewal). Roughly 1/3 of all that have been produced so far have no stripe breaks. Another 1/3 or so have two to four stripe breaks, and the other 1/3 can have five to 20+ stripe breaks, but those breaks are merely interruptions of the stripe. Not unlike very good Striped Motleys, many Tesseras have an interruption of stripe at the girdle (anatomical location – polar to the cloaca), but unlike Striped and Motley mutants, the dorsal stripe almost always continues to the tail tip. Thus far, fully striped Tesseras have been produced from parents with some-to-many dorsal stripe breaks. Hence, broken-striped Tesseras can produce fully striped striped Tesseras, even though their stripe is broken. Incidentally, none of the original 2.1 original Tesseras in this line have complete dorsal striping, but many of their progeny and grand progeny do.
More than 2/3 of the Tesseras produced by me so far have atypically large amounts of black pigment in their non-ventral pattern — a feature roughly 1% of all Striped and Motley mutants have demonstrated to date. Less than 1/4 of all Tesseras produced by me have little to no black in their markings, and these are mostly Striped Tesseras.
The belly patterns are all over the charts. A precious few have enough belly checkering to qualify them as wild-type common corns — until you flip them over to see their mutant pattern elsewhere. About 1/3 of them have roughly 15% to 30% of the volume of checkering seen in wild-types, and about 1/3 or more have virtually no belly checkering at all. Some of the ones with NO belly checkering have organized strings of black markings running the length of both sides of the belly, along the ventral crest.
Having grafted another entire branch on the already sprawling corn snake family tree, we think the Tessera mutation will offer genetic flexibility never before possible; mainly in the realm of making Stripe and Motley types without losing the black (or white in albinos). Imagine all the current colors of corns infused with the Tessera, Striped Tessera, and Motley Tessera patterns?
Important Note:
These images ar
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toDAY’s SNAKE of the DAY (Sat. Oct. 20, 2012)
Lavender Motley
Male
d.o.h. 2010
33″ long on October 20, 2012
$165.00 shipped
Possibly Het Amel.
Lavender Motley (no aka)
Most Commonly Used Name: Lavender Motley
Mode of Genetic Inheritance: Recessive
Morph Type: Triple Mutation Compound
Eye Color: Redish pupil & body ground colored iris (see details below about some having Black pupils)
This Double mutation is the product of the color gene mutation, Lavender, and the pattern mutation, Motley. As with many Lavender morphs, eye pupils can be red/pink or black.
Blizzard (no aka)
Most Commonly Used Name: Blizzard
Mode of Genetic Inheritance: Recessive
Morph Type: Double Mutation Compound (Amel & Charcoal)
The Blizzard corn is the finished product of combining the two recessive color mutations, Amel and Charcoal. If you pair a Blizzard with a non Blizzard, Amel, or Charcoal, in the absence of any other mutations in these snakes, 100% of the progeny will be common corns that are heterozygous for Amel and Charcoal. By then breeding two of these F1 snakes together, you will get approximately one Blizzard for every 16 hatchlings — in addition to some wild-types, Amels , and Charcoals.
What to expect:
As hatchlings, Blizzards can be nearly patternless, mildly patterned (dirty white or cream on white or pink ground zones), or heavily patterned, but no yellow will be present. As adults, some Blizzards mature to be completely white and virtually pattern-less (although pattern is usually obvious in strong light or flash photography). Most adult Blizzards at this time show obvious yellow which is the result of carotenoid retention from diet – which slowly manifests throughout maturity. Early in corn snake herpetoculture, the majority of Blizzard corns lacked most (or all) such yellow, but through subsequent breeding to change the patterns of Blizzards, the trait for manifesting yellow was infused into many genetic families. Breeding trials are ongoing — in an effort to create family lines that are devoid of this color feature. This should result in the general appearance of white and pattern-less corns.
Important Note:
These images are not renderings of the actual animals being offered, (except for uniquely offered snakes found in the SURPLUS section of this web site). We do not provide pictures of individual hatchling snakes for sale, nor do we recommend that you ever choose a new pet based on an image of its neonatal form. Corns change so dramatically from hatchling to adult, they will NEVER have the same colors or contrasts throughout maturity. While most of the snakes we produce will mature to resemble the featured adult image(s) on our web site, unlike manufactured products that are respectively clones of each other, the nature of polygenic variation results in each animal being similar but not identical to others of its morph. The snake we select for you may not mature to be identical to the pictured examples, but will be chosen based on our experience of observing which neonates will mature to properly represent their respective morph. We take this responsibility very seriously, and therefore publish the guarantee that we will exchange your SMR snake if it does not mature to be like our advertised examples.
Each DAY at 11:00 am. ct (GMT – 5) we will post a different SMR snake being offered at a special price.
All snakes will be chosen for their rarity and/or unique beauty.
FREE U.S. SHIPPING for each Snake-of-the-Day.
toDAY’s SNAKE of the DAY (Thu., Dec. 6, 2012)
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Details
#120612
28″ long on Dec, 1, 2012
Banded Amel
Male
d.o.h. 2011
$80.00 shipped
Comments: Feeding on frozen/thawed fuzzy mice.
Each DAY at 11:00 am. ct (GMT – 5) we will post a different SMR snake being offered at a special price.
All snakes will be chosen for their rarity and/or unique beauty.
FREE U.S.SHIPPING for each Snake-of-the-Day.
#022713
Caramel Het
Female
d.o.h. 2010
48″ long on Feb. 27, 2013
$250.00 shipped
This 2010 female Caramel is now 48″ long, feeding on frozen/thawed adult mice. She brumated (hibernated) from October 10, 2012 to January 31, 2013 and is ready for breeding NOW. For perhaps only the next seven to 10 DAYs, she will be receptive to being bred by a mature male corn snake.
OPTION 1: If you like the snake and would like to buy her, but the price is out of your budget, you may opt to buy her for $200.00 shipped and have her shipped to you after she lays her first 2013 clutch of eggs. Otherwise, if you have a male you’d like to breed to her, I recommend buying her immediately so you could get eggs from her in mere weeks.
OPTION 2: If you would like for us to breed her to a male in our adult male breeder inventory, inquire about what males are available for this service. We will not breed her to a Tessera or Palmetto and we do not guarantee fertile results. For this option her price is $300.00 shipped and you will be provided with proof of copulation photographic evidence. She will not be bred to a male of your choosing until you have paid for her (because you may choose a male that I would deem counter to our breeding plans for her).
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Caramel (no aka)
Most Commonly Used Name: Caramel
Mode of Genetic Inheritance: Recessive
Morph Type: Single Recessive Mutation
Eye Color: Black pupil & body ground colored iris
At first glance, Caramel mutants are not usually attractive – since gold or brown color actions of this gene mutation essentially replace the rich red tones predominant in most corn snakes. Aside from their general appearance, the Caramel mutation has some unusual genetic properties (compared to most recessively inherited corn snake gene mutants), but this mutation is essential if you wish to eventually create yellow corns. The most notably atypical characteristic of this mutation is that of heterozygous (Het for short) Caramels often displaying mutation markers (exhibiting traits of the homozygous phenotypes). It is not typical for out-crossed F1 corns to show markers of their gene mutation, but from pairing a Caramel corn to a non-mutant corn of any other color and/or pattern, most of the out-crossed F1 progeny will exhibit a blush of gold or yellow as neonates. In other words, most of the first generation babies will not look like typical wild-type corns. As adults, most corns that are Het for caramel are easily distinguishable from Hets of virtually all other F1 recessive out-crosses, but since this is not always the case, the co-incidental caramel coloration is thought to be the result of polygenic traits derived from the first non-mutant corns that were paired with Caramel types. If this is the case, it demonstrates the power of polygenetic forces by the persistence to show these colors after hundreds of out-crossings – since the late 1980s when this mutation was first discovered.
What to expect:
Caramel mutants are relatively lackluster, when compared to some of their compound products (i.e. Butters and Ambers ). There are still other corn snake mutations (both color and pattern) whose out-crossed progeny will have modified appearance when paired with Caramel mutants, so do not be afraid to mix this seemingly “lazy” genetic color mutation with other corn snake mutations. Like most corn snake mutants, both adult and neonate Caramels are highly variable, spanning the color spectrum from brown to gold, and some even exhibit green tones. As neonates, many Caramels are similar to hatchling Anery corns, but as they mature, the typical caramel coloration slowly manifests. Some of our lines have obvious blotch borders, but most have borders that are barely discernible and some have no blotch borders.
Important Note:
These images are not renderings of the actual animals being offered, (except for uniquely offered snakes found in the SURPLUSsection of this web site). We do not provide pictures of individual hatchling snakes for sale, nor do we recommend that you ever choose a new pet based on an image of its neonatal form. Corns change so dramatically from hatchling to adult, they will NEVER have the same colors or contrasts throughout maturity. While most of the snakes we produce will mature to resemble the featured adult image(s) on our web site, unlike manufactured products that are respectively clones of each other, the nature of polygenic variation results in each animal being similar but not identical to others of its morph. The snake we select for you may not mature to be identical to the pictured examples, but will be chosen based on our experience of observing which neonates will mature to properly represent their respective morph. We take this responsibility very seriously, and therefore publish the guarantee that we will exchange yourSMR snake if it does not mature to be like our advertised examples.
Striped Amber X Buckskin Okeetee (no aka)
Most Commonly Used Name: Buckskin Okeetee
Mode of Genetic Inheritance: Dominant (wild-type) + Selective Variation & Recessive Mutations
Morph Type: Selective Variation of the wild-type, Okeetee
Eye Color: Black pupil & body ground colored iris
The Buckskin Okeetee is another example of the promotion of polygenic traits through selective breeding. These project Okeetees are the products of breeding Buckskin Okeetees to a Striped Amber. Since all Okeetees owe their appearance to selectively bred gene traits, the more we breed these to others like them, the better they will look in subsequent generations. These project products have a strong Okeetee appearance and are, of course, heterozygous for the gene mutations Stripe, Caramel, and Hypo A. The target product of this genetic line is the Striped Ambers with a ground color that has hopefully been modified toward the buckskin ground color AND/OR Okeetees with enhanced buckskin ground color zones, but the reason these are listed as PROJECT CORNS is because this is only first base toward the home-run of the finished production. At least one more line-bred generation is necessary before the intended beauty of this product is observed.
What to expect:
In both neonates and adults, the ground color should be obviously pale by comparison to typical Okeetees. Note that neonate Okeetees of any persuasion are initially disappointing, as all their colors are drab through much of their youth. Colors will change with maturity, but always get richer and more saturated through maturity. As it is with most relatively new morphs, we don’t yet know what potential variation exists in Buckskin Okeetees, but the obvious target should have clean blotch and ground colors with little or no stippling or speckling that is often seen in the ground color zones of most non-mutant corns, heavy black blotch margins, buckskin-colored ground color zones, and richly saturated red blotches.
Do not expect any hatchling/neonate Okeetee to look anything like the adults. This picture shows an adult female Extreme Okeetee with several of her newly hatched babies (no, she was not present when they hatched in the incubator). This adult looked exactly like the babies shown in this image when she was their size.
Important Note:
The advertising images on our web site are representations of the average adult example of each morph. These images are not renderings of the actual animals being offered, (except for uniquely offered snakes found in the SURPLUS section of this web site). We do not provide pictures of individual hatchling snakes for sale, nor do we recommend that you ever choose a new pet based on an image of its neonatal form. Corns change so dramatically from hatchling to adult, they will NEVER have the same colors or contrasts throughout maturity. While most of the snakes we produce will mature to resemble the featured adult image(s) on our web site, unlike manufactured products that are respectively clones of each other, the nature of polygenic variation results in each animal being similar but not identical to others of its morph. The snake we select for you may not mature to be identical to the pictured examples, but will be chosen based on our experience of observing which neonates will mature to properly represent their respective morph. We take this responsibility very seriously, and therefore publish the guarantee that we will exchange your SMR snake if it does not mature to be like our advertised examples.
Hypomelanistic A (no aka)
Most Commonly Used Name: Hypo (hobby abbreviation)
Mode of Genetic Inheritance: Recessive
Morph Type: Mutation compound (Caramel + Hypo A)
Eye Color: Black pupil & body ground colored iris (it is rare, but some can be so hypomelanistic, their pupils are gray to dark red).
Hypo corns have a potentially confusing name. I refer to the reality that they were named for the Latin/Greek derived term that best describes the genetic mechanics of this mutation — Hypo (greatly reduced) and melanism (black pigment). Hence, we use the capitalized name Hypo to apply to this particular morph and lower case hypo referencing reduction of any color or pattern in other mutations (i.e. hypoerythrism). At this time, there are at least three other hypo-type mutations in corns (i.e. Lava, Sunkissed, Ultra).
What to expect:
Hatchlings are often darker than you’d expect a Hypo corn to look as an adult. Through maturity, the dark ones usually lighten, and often diffuse pattern as well. Many that once possessed black in their markings, lose it through maturation or it is rendered silver or gray. Some will retain black checkering on the belly, while some will have checkering that appears to be gray or silver. Expect neonates to be more pale than their wild-type counterparts. The sloughed epidermis (shed skin) of Hypo corns should not exhibit black (it should be essentially featureless – like the shed skins of Amel types), since melanin in Hypos is relegated mostly to middle and lower dermal layers that do not slough. In other words, the epidermis of most hypo type corns does not contain the melanin we see in most corns.
General Note:
While most of the snakes we produce will mature to resemble the featured adult image(s) on our web site, unlike manufactured products that are respectively identical to each other, the nature of polygenic variation results in no two specimens being exactly the same. The snake we select for you may not mature to be identical to the pictured examples, but will be chosen based on our experience of observing which neonates will mature to properly represent their respective morph. We take this responsibility very seriously, and therefore publish the guarantee that we will replace your SMR snake if it does not mature to be like our advertised examples.
Buckskin Okeetee (no aka)
Most Commonly Used Name: Buckskin Okeetee
Mode of Genetic Inheritance: Dominant (wild-type) + Selective Variation
Morph Type: Selective Variation of the wild-type, Okeetee
Eye Color: Black pupil & body ground colored iris
The Buckskin Okeetee is another example of the promotion of polygenic traits through selective breeding. By breeding together specimens with an atypically tan ground coloration, through generational selection of pairing only the ones with the most buckskin ground coloration, we are now producing beautiful Okeetees with pale brown or tan ground colors. Of course, this means that no mutations are involved, since instead, changes are made through selective breeding via changes in non-mutant gene interactions.
What to expect:
In both neonates and adults, the ground color should be obviously pale by comparison to typical Okeetees. Note that neonate Okeetees of any persuasion are initially disappointing, as all their colors are drab through much of their youth. Colors will change with maturity, but always get richer and more saturated through maturity. As it is with most relatively new morphs, we don’t yet know what potential variation exists in Buckskin Okeetees, but the obvious target should have clean blotch and ground colors with little or no stippling or speckling that is often seen in the ground color zones of most non-mutant corns, heavy black blotch margins, buckskin-colored ground color zones, and richly saturated red blotches.
Do not expect any hatchling/neonate Okeetee to look anything like the adults. This picture shows an adult female Extreme Okeetee with several of her newly hatched babies (no, she was not present when they hatched in the incubator). This adult looked exactly like the babies shown in this image when she was their size.
Important Note:
The advertising images on our web site are representations of the average adult example of each morph. These images are not renderings of the actual animals being offered, (except for uniquely offered snakes found in the SURPLUS section of this web site). We do not provide pictures of individual hatchling snakes for sale, nor do we recommend that you ever choose a new pet based on an image of its neonatal form. Corns change so dramatically from hatchling to adult, they will NEVER have the same colors or contrasts throughout maturity. While most of the snakes we produce will mature to resemble the featured adult image(s) on our web site, unlike manufactured products that are respectively clones of each other, the nature of polygenic variation results in each animal being similar but not identical to others of its morph. The snake we select for you may not mature to be identical to the pictured examples, but will be chosen based on our experience of observing which neonates will mature to properly represent their respective morph. We take this responsibility very seriously, and therefore publish the guarantee that we will exchange your SMR snake if it does not mature to be like our advertised examples.
Bloodred (aka: blood)
Note: Expect DIFFUSED and BLOODRED to be incorrectly but synonymously used
Most Commonly used Name: Bloodred
Mode of Genetic Inheritance: Selective Variation + Recessive
Morph Type: Single recessive mutation & selective variation
Eye Color: Black pupil & body ground colored iris
A few years ago, due to confusion regarding the heritability of the Bloodred’s base mutation (specifically that the namesake snakes were not red and/or diffused), the base mutation name was changed away from Bloodred – to Diffused. The mechanics of this gene mutation barely diffuse the F1 homozygotes through maturity (if at all), so do not expect Diffused corns to look like Bloodreds. It is currently believed that Bloodred corns are the product of enhancing the base mutation, Diffused via polygenetic trait modification (selective breeding) to render a red and almost pattern-less (highly diffused) corn snake. That is not the opinion of this author, but in the absence of empirical evidence to the contrary, the best hobby and market interests are not served by published opposition to popular opinion. In other words, I’m not in favor of changing the morph name away from the original Bloodred since the new name Diffused is equally inaccurate. Without polygenetic modification, Diffused corns do not have a diffused appearance.
A brief history on Diffused mutants VS Bloodred mutants:
Initially, the corn snake gene mutation, Diffusion (formerly called Bloodred) was described as being recessively inherited, but many of the F1 generational heterozygotes exhibited some of the obvious features of the gene mutation homozygotes. It is extremely rare for simple recessive F1 heterozygotes to exhibit ANY features of their recessively inherited genetic mutation. For example, F1 heterozygous Amel corn snakes have no markers that demonstrate a hint of their simple recessive mutation, Amel. The paradoxical partial-exhibition of the Diffusion mutation in the heterozygotes resulted in the Diffused mutation being re-described as having codominant inheritance (codom for short), but was tagged with the descriptor, variable. At that time, variable codom seemed an accurate and satisfactory genetic description for the radical color and pattern diversity among members of this mutation, but far too many genetic anomalies persisted. Identification of the inheritance of this mutation is once again considered simple recessive, but the Bloodred corn that most of us identify with toDAY is virtually always the aggregate of traits resulting from the Diffused (new mutation name) gene mutation PLUS polygenetic traits promoted by selectively breeding toward the highest expressions of melanin reduction, diffusion, and red color saturation.
What to expect:
As neonates, Bloodred corns are often heavily patterned (sides are generally faded or lacking typical lateral markings). Some exhibit black (or partially black) scales bordering some of the pattern blotches, and most of them have head patterns that are notably unlike those of typical corns. Most SMR Bloodreds diffuse dramatically through maturity, thereby rendering adults that are nearly devoid of head markings, side markings, (any visible dorsal markings will be very faint). There will be NO belly checkering, but ventral coloration can be all red, all white, or red and white (no black). Many of the early Bloodred corns in the early 1990s were overly inbred and therefore suffered poor fertility (not to mention – the progeny of many of the first generations were stubbornly lizard lovers, refusing to eat pinky mice). Thankfully, through out-crossing in our projects to improve or change colors and patterns, Bloodreds no longer rank high in the realms of sterility or reluctance to eat rodents. In fact, there are some seasons in which Bloodreds are among the best feeders of our corn snake neonates.
Important Note:
These images are not renderings of the actual animals being offered, (except for uniquely offered snakes found in the SURPLUS section of this web site). We do not provide pictures of individual hatchling snakes for sale, nor do we recommend that you ever choose a new pet based on an image of its neonatal form. Corns change so dramatically from hatchling to adult, they will NEVER have the same colors or contrasts throughout maturity. While most of the snakes we produce will mature to resemble the featured adult image(s) on our web site, unlike manufactured products that are respectively clones of each other, the nature of polygenic variation results in each animal being similar but not identical to others of its morph. The snake we select for you may not mature to be identical to the pictured examples, but will be chosen based on our experience of observing which neonates will mature to properly represent their respective morph. We take this responsibility very seriously, and therefore publish the guarantee that we will exchange your SMR snake if it does not mature to be like our advertised examples.
